I think so too.
contents of dev-faq@ja.oo.o are not directly
related to ja.oo.o's contents. and such mails must ONLY be kept
by the administrator of oooug.jp.
@catch, what is the reason for archiving?

We use another ML for bbs Archive.
We use automatic  transfer of bbs@oooug.jp to bbs@ja.openoffice.org.
I think this is same way.

これまで、ja-bbsの変更を、bbsoooug.jpからbbs@ja.openoffice.orgに転送して
きました。faqをMLに流すのは、それと同じ使い方です。

http://ja.openoffice.org/servlets/SummarizeList?listName=bbs


Khirano said his opinion many times on discuss@ja ML.
平野さんは、discuss@jaにおいて何度も提言してきました。

http://ja.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=1354987


I said 'please response my question and additional information'
however He didn't answer.
I present another plan using RSS reader.
Anybody approbal khirano's opinion on discuss@ja ML.
Anybody approbal another plan useing RSS reader on discuss@ja ML.

しかし、私が追加の説明を求めても、理解のできる返事をしていません。
すでに、代替案として、RSSリーダーを使うという提案しました。
しかし、このdiscuss@ja MLにおいて、平野さんに誰も賛成する投稿はしていま
せん。代替案に切り替えようと言う人も、誰もいませんでした。


Then Khirano posted this Issue.

そして、平野さんはこのIssueを立てています。


Of cource, we can use anothe plan using RSS reader or anothe free ML service.

もちろん、RSSリーダーを使うといった代替案や
ほかのFreeなMLサービスを採用できます。


I think we should continue discussion on discuss@ja ML.
I think we should not approval no-logical and Noizy commnet. 

私たちは、引き続き日本語で議論を続けるべきです。
私たちは、論理的な説明をせず、Noizyなコメントを
採用すべきではありません。


Plese post your coment.

あなたの意見を教えてください。

khirano --> catch

Please read my first post to this issue.
It answers all your question.

Allow me to ask you the question again, "what is the reason for archiving?"

Mr.Hirano, it looks very strange.
You must continue discussing in Japanese.

Makoto Ono

This issue is to solve the question of abusing the ooo lists.
That's why I cc'd foral (Japanese Native Language Project Lead), southerncross
(NLC Lead) and louis (Community Manager).
We have to use the language which all the people here can understand and use to
communicate, such as English.

I'm a little lost here and need some information.

It seems to me that ycatch has responded to the point khirano and maho make.  
How has he not?

What needs to be done?

In general, the idea is right: OOo lists are for OOo work, ie, work that benefits the OOo project.

But it seems, to repeat, that ycatch has addressed the point or is willing to.  Please elaborate....

thanks!
Louis

@catch, what is the reason for archiving?

all, thank you for your comments.
sorry.
I understanding little message from you.

>contents of dev-faq@ja.oo.o are not directly
>related to ja.oo.o's contents. and such mails must ONLY be kept
>by the administrator of oooug.jp.

yes.
contents of wiki of oooug.jp are not directly related to ja.oo.o's contents.
はい、ja.oooには直接関係していません。


>@catch, what is the reason for archiving?

- Pukiwki we use have little backup function.
  it is save files only 15days.
- We are poor admin-team for oooug.jp
  We save backup files by own hands.

contents of dev-faq@ja.oo.o are not backup files.
It is change-log for our wiki system.
And we need the change-log.
It is very usefull.

>なぜ、アーカイブするのでしょう?

私たちが使っているPukiwkiが、十分なバックアップ機能を持っていません。
15日分のバックアップしか取りません。

oooug.jpの管理体制が十分ではないため。
手動でバックアップする必要があります。

dev-faq@ja.oo.oで流れる情報は、ファイルのバックアップというより変更履歴です。
私たちには、この変更履歴が必要です。
この変更履歴は、役に立ちます。

* reason of use ja.ooo List

- ycatch and wiki-maintenars have experience useing ja.ooo ML
- In Japanese OOo comunity, Someone said "We don't divide ML-resources"

Yesterday, I said "we can use anothe plan using RSS reader or anothe free ML
service."

I think we should not stop ML of Wiki-archiving.
however, we can change ML-system from ja.ooo to another.

* ja.oooを使う理由

- 管理者とメンテナーが使い慣れているから
- MLを分散させることをやめようという意見があったから

すでに指摘したように、FreeのMLサービスを使えば
同様の機能を実現可能です。
Wikiの変更履歴用MLを止めるべきではありませんが、
他のMLに変えることはできます。

>We have to use the language which all the people here can understand and use to
>communicate, such as English.

All the people don't use English.
Select one language, all the people don't understand and communicate.

I think we should continue discussing in Japanese.
If necessary, you should translate message from ja to en.

You disregarded member of ja-community discussing you.


全ての人は、英語を使えません。
1つの言語を選べば、全ての人が理解しコミュニケーションできません。

私たちは、日本語で議論を続けるべきだと思います。
必要に応じて、あなたが日本語から英語に翻訳しらた如何でしょう。

あなたは、あなたと議論してきた日本のコミュニティのメンバーを
無視していないでしょうか。

* この部分は、日本語であればもっと湾曲表現にするのですが、私の英語力では
* 記述できません。ごめんなさい。

> This issue is to solve the question of abusing the ooo lists.
> ...

Mr.Hirano, thank you for answer.
But I meant that you have the responsibility for discussing on Japanese ML.
Don't you understand that you insult Japanese ML members?

Makoto Ono


平野さん、回答ありがとうございます。
しかし、私が言いたかったのは「あなたには日本のMLで議論を続ける責任がある」という
ことです。
日本の ML メンバーをバカにするな、ということです。

Hi,

After reviewing the matter, I would like to remind that OOo lists are meant for collaborative OOo work and 
are not designed to track outside site activity. Please use some alternative resource for tracking Pukiwki, 
etc.  I recommend Google Groups <http://groups.google.com/> or something like that. 

Thank you,

Louis

thank you, louis and all.

I added another ML and changed setting from dev-faq@ja to New.
http://oooug.jp/faq/index.php?faq%2F3%2F5

ycatch,

Thanks, but I am not sure I comprehend the point of what you did. Would you be so kind as to explain 
further the consequences of what you just did?  Thanks.

To recapitulate...

The issue: OOo lists are for work done on OOo on OOo. Using them to track offsite work is not what 
they are designed for and is a kind of abuse of the resources.

Solution: Use Google Groups or some such thing instead to track offsite activity.

Thanks,

Louis

ycatch has created a new list, ooo_qa_log@freeml.com, to track offsite works and
archive dev-faq wiki changes.

Automated transfer from faq@oooug.jp to dev-faq@ja.openoffice.org has been stopped.

http://ja.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev-faq&by=date&from=2006-05-01&to=2006-05-31&first=1&count=1600

thanks for the clarification, Khirano.

closing.

Louis